Confused about Surinam vs Columbian

[kchan11]

Hi everyone, I just registered to this forum, I guess I'm newer to snakes, I have always been much more of a Gecko person...

But anyway, I'm sorry to ask such a newb question, but here goes anyway.

I have had a Red Tail for about 4 years now, she was sold to me as a Surinam Red Tail, and I have just always known her as that. I recently acquired another Red Tail, said to be Columbian. Now that I have the two, I realize that they look very similar. I'm confused about the distinctions of a Surinam vs. a Columbian. How do you tell? I've been looking up pictures of both online and trying to compare them, but don't really know what to be looking for exactly.

Also, is there a price difference between the two? I paid relatively about the same price for both.

I was going to attach pictures of my two so I can have help identifying what they really are, but realized there isn't an attachment button anywhere like some forums- Attachments are not allowed on this forum?

Thanks so much everyone,
Karin

[mantilope5200]

Well they are basically the same thing. As a loose rule Surinams are know as the “true red tail” because they usually have really blood red tails with light coloration and peaked saddles. I have 3 Suris and that is true in only 2, the male I have is a darker color with HUGE peaks. Columbians range in color but I have yet to see one with a REALLY red tail. Peruvians are sometimes almost a yellow color with peaked saddles. Guyanans have almost a grape colored tail. So there are some slight difference but people cross breed them in captivity and they cross in the wild so there is no real telling about specifics. Columbians yield the lowest price and Surinams tend to yield the highest price of the aforementioned. I hope this helps!

Samantha

[LdyDrgn]

Colombian boas (Boa constrictor imperator) and Surinam boas (Boa constrictor constrictor) do not look similar. The colors in a Surinam are much more brilliant... blood red tail with a pinkish/purple wash to the sides whereas the Colombian will have an orange or brown tail. All BCC are higher in price than BCI (for normals)

Not all BCC have peaked saddles, either, but most do. Some BCI have peaked saddles, although they are smaller. I haven't seen too many Peruvians with peaks, ours has only 1 slightly peaked saddle.

[kchan11]

thanks very much, I am 100% positive now that I have two columbian red tails - no surinams. I feel scammed!! and I feel like a fool, for thinking and telling people I had a Suri - they must have thought I was a moron for thinking she was anything more than a columbian!

Someone had given me the link to this website:

http://www.cuttingedgeherp.com/localityboas/view_all.nhtml

and it helped me out a lot. I had no idea there were so many different locales of red tails. and all these can interbreed with each other??

Karin

[LdyDrgn]

Karin, another great place to check out is Boa Constrictors.com (http://www.boa-constrictors.com/) There are several subspecies of Boa constrictor and many locales within some of those subspecies. ;)

Yes, they can interbreed with each other, but when it comes to the boas, I am a purist. I feel that locality boas shouldn't be muddied by crossing it with another ssp. Just my personal opinion on boas. Some agree, some do not.

[kchan11]

Thanks again very much, I completely agree with the purist thoughts. I believe the same for not only the reptiles, but also with birds and some breeds of dogs.

[Tammy]

Normal Suriname & Normal Colombian
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v642/fruitbatjellybean/299b6abc.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v642/fruitbatjellybean/201027ee.jpg

[kchan11]

The suri is the darker colored one in the second picture - right? (god i hope i am, i'll seriously feel like such a failure if i'm wrong..)

also - how did you post pictures? I don't think I'm allowed to?

Karin

[BoaMan Jon]

The suri is on the left and the colombian is on the right

[kchan11]

dammit!! I thought the Surinam was on the RIGHT, because that one had more vibrant coloring (the orange-ish versus the grayer) and both have pretty red tails i think...but the one on the Right also has more saddles and they're darker in color.

Oh well..I guess this all just goes to show that Boas are just not my thing...stick to geckos and pythons...

[Rbraczyk]

My favorites are Dumerils and Argentine, although they have pretty poor reputations. Such sacrifices must be made though.

[biggworm]

Kchan, almost all baby boa's start out grey.If your looking at babies look at pattern,head shape and the shape of the tail blotches.

Here's my sub adult female Suri.Here's the color your talking about.

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/650/31205girls0941dd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Here's my adult columbian female.

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/9475/96050764de.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[SnyderSnakes]

I believe the scale count is also different between the two species. I've owned many "true" redtails and colombians over the past decade and another thing I've noticed is the overall scale sheen is different in some specimens. This may have something to do with locality in the wild. True redtailed species also tend to have well defined head markings, especially the double "eye brows" on the top of the head, one of the most striking traits in my opinion. I love Colombians, but for me there is nothing more stunning than a crisply marked, high-peaked Suriname.
The Suriname in my signature below is a classic example of "true" redtail, he is currently my only snake which should exceed 6 feet in length. I told myself that I only wanted smaller species (and with over 50 snakes that's a good thing right now), but when Basically Boas offered him for sale I couldn't pass him up! LOL! He is in shed right now, but as soon as he sheds I'll post photos.

Paul

[mantilope5200]

Colombian boas (Boa constrictor imperator) and Surinam boas (Boa constrictor constrictor) do not look similar. The colors in a Surinam are much more brilliant... blood red tail with a pinkish/purple wash to the sides whereas the Colombian will have an orange or brown tail. All BCC are higher in price than BCI (for normals)

Not all BCC have peaked saddles, either, but most do. Some BCI have peaked saddles, although they are smaller. I haven't seen too many Peruvians with peaks, ours has only 1 slightly peaked saddle.

How can you possibly say that they don't look similar??? Are you saying that all BCC and BCI do not resemble each other? With the exception of Argetines and hogs (I might be forgetting one or two) they resemble each other quite a bit. I also never said that ALL BCC have peaked saddles. I have seen MANY suris for sale that look like Columbians. I have a Suri that looks just like a typical Suri and I have a Florida Redtails Suri that is 100% Suri but it resembles something else. Columbians cross with Peruvians and Surinams in the wild making natural mutts. It is very hard to be certain what EXACT locale you have just by eyeballing it. Yes there are tale-tell signs to distinguish them but they tend to be the same size and originate from the same area.

[LdyDrgn]

They look very different to me. Head shape, colors, saddle shape and markings is how I am able to distinguish them. But then I argue with my husband constantly on different shades of color that he can't even 'see', lol. What I am saying is: not everyone sees things the same way. You say they look similar, fine. I say they don't, but that's just me.

[Tammy]

dammit!! I thought the Surinam was on the RIGHT, because that one had more vibrant coloring (the orange-ish versus the grayer) and both have pretty red tails i think...but the one on the Right also has more saddles and they're darker in color.

Oh well..I guess this all just goes to show that Boas are just not my thing...stick to geckos and pythons...

The dead give away would be the shape of the saddles, if you notice, the suri has points on each saddle, making them look bat shaped and the colombian doesnt.

[biggworm]

Lady Dragon,
I totally agree with you.I can pick out B.C.C. in a pile of B.C.I.I guess you just have to have the eye.I can even tell Columbian Boa Constrictor,Constrictor from B.C.I.Now talk about looking alike.I can usually tell by the tail blotches and pattern.
BOA'S ROCK....Ash Lopez

[BoaMan Jon]

I'm with Ldy too... If you have enough experience you can tell all the different locals and subspecies apart easily by the ground color, size and shape of the saddles, and the color and shape of the tail blotches. With an experienced eye you can tell all the boas apart with little difficulty.

www.boa-constrictors.com is a really good place to start if you want to be able to differentiate the different boa locals and subspecies easily.

[LdyDrgn]

Thanks guys. Yup, Ash, I guess I got the Evil Eye, lol.

[jojo6199]

ohh thank goodness for this thread LOL! We've been looking at Suri's as they are our "dream snake" when we feel ready to properly raise one. We currently have 5 female ball python, a male 05 coming next month and are fostering a 5.5 foot BCI male rescue until he's ready for shipping to his "forever home".

The only thing I'm horribly confused on with Suri's is I have found pics of them with a darker base coloring, a lighter base color and a few of a quite amazing almost silver background color. Are there actual morphs of this type of snake or just differences in shades or are they not pure Suri?

Hope I'm not highjacking this thread.....

[mantilope5200]

I was not trying to say that no one can tell the difference between them, I am just stating that to the "common eye" they look the same. I, much like many other BCC and BCI enthusiasts can see slight differences. But if you tried to ask my mom the difference she couldn't do it. I once rescued what was described to me as a "South American Burmese python". I was also just trying to give advice that it is best to buy from a reputable breeder so you don’t end up paying $400 for a Columbian Boa Constrictor. Seems like for every 1 reputable breeder there are 20 just in it for the money and will try to scam you. Be careful because it’s not like differentiating between a normal ball python and a piebald! Oh and Jojo6199 if Suris are your passion and you want to lay down some cash for a REALLY nice one check out www.floridaredtails.com

-Samantha

[LdyDrgn]

LOL, I have met people that couldn't tell the difference between a corn snake and a Burmese python. As we get more educated and our eyes become more trained to see the differences many things become less and less 'similar'. *shrug* So it seems to me. ;)

[biggworm]

Joanna,that's the beauty of Surinam Boa's. The ground color is highly variable.Just pick your favorite.However MOST babies start out GREY,and develope their colors usually after their 2nd year.I personally like the purple ones. Ash Lopez

[jojo6199]

Well personally I love our royals and didn't have much interests in redtails or boas at all until we started fostering Rauri (the male BCI). We've now totally fallen under his spell! What a wonderful big snake he is! A lot busier than our female balls and considering his past, incredibly well mannered.

Well other than when we take him to roam in our enclosed front porch he generally wants to laze out on the love seat and stare out the window....I think he has evil designs on the resident squirrel population! He also decided he liked my wooden side table and it was hilarious trying to pry him from around it. Rauri apparently thought it would make a lovely cage decoration and was a bit determined to take it "home" with him LOL.

When we were researching about Rauri, we came across the Suri's and just went...that's it! Someday we want one of those! We need to do a ton more research tho and make sure we are ready for the long term committment of a much larger snake first.