What is Powerfeeding, and what are its Results?

[esoteric-lizard]

just curious on your thoughts... i have a few snakes that some would consider me to be powerfeeding, but in reality they just have incedable appitites. as a result these animals have done nothing but grow really fast... they in ever other way appear to be normal. they at times seem to have explosive growth spurts...

two snakes in particular... one being 2 months older than the other, both having unequal appitites. the younger one loves to eat... i feed her at her leasure, the other is a somewhat pickey eater - she eats 1/2 less what the younger one eats. the younger one seemed to out grow the older one at first.. but now the older one is larger, both have stayed on the same feeding shedule... so i am a little confused, my belief is that all snakes have different metabolisms, and so their appitite, and growth patterns are going to differ from snake to snake.

so i ask you, is porewfeeding:

feeding to excellerate growth, but resulting in achieving the maximum "potential" genetic size?

feeding that can make the animal grow beyond what its DNA allows in growth?

is powerfeeding a misleading term that simply describes the over zealious feeder?

any of your knowledge, and experiences would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

Brian

[PadraigC]

power feeding: the most undefined word out there. If sanke can eat it digest and handle it, theyll take it voluntarily. If you need to shove it in them while there eating, thats powerfeeding to me. I fed a retic once 3 rats 2 gpigs and a rabbit she ate them all singaly over the course of 3 hours or so...is that powerfeeding? If someone can come u with a largerly agreed definition theyd be doing us a fvor

[Tammy]

Firstly, are they both retics?
Secondly, does the younger/hungrier one have parasites possibly?
Is the older one getting larger sized meals?
Is the older one longer, heavier or both?
Is the "powerfed"'s body shutting down because it was fed waaaay too much and it is now going to die because of that. (or it has a tumor, a bum liver, a rotten lung-HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE?! etc)? -just a thought...it could happen. :102:

If this is going to turn into some dwarf retic debate..I don't want to play anymore.

I would say that 9 3/4 times out of 10 more food= bigger snakes unless there is something going on.

[esoteric-lizard]

power feeding: the most undefined word out there. If sanke can eat it digest and handle it, theyll take it voluntarily. If you need to shove it in them while there eating, thats powerfeeding to me. I fed a retic once 3 rats 2 gpigs and a rabbit she ate them all singaly over the course of 3 hours or so...is that powerfeeding? If someone can come u with a largerly agreed definition theyd be doing us a fvor

Padraig,
i totally agree with you... i think this term is definatly thrown around too easily... how do you shove food down a snakes mouth until it cant take anymore? all the "aggressive" eaters i have know when to say when... but they are always asking for food... so i feed them, why turn down an opportunity to feed a female breeder? i think the only thing that happens to a well fed snake is that it gets fat... and if its growing, it will grow faster - but i dont know if this is really harmful - if it was, i would think the snakes body would tell it to mellow out on the food.


Firstly, are they both retics?
Secondly, does the younger/hungrier one have parasites possibly?
Is the older one getting larger sized meals?
Is the older one longer, heavier or both?
Is the "powerfed"'s body shutting down because it was fed waaaay too much and it is now going to die because of that. (or it has a tumor, a bum liver, a rotten lung-HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE?! etc)? -just a thought...it could happen.

If this is going to turn into some dwarf retic debate..I don't want to play anymore.

I would say that 9 3/4 times out of 10 more food= bigger snakes unless there is something going on.

Tammy, yes they are both retics.

no parasites at all :) .

they both recieve approximatly the same size meals.

i havent weighed any of them yet, but i should... the smaller one seems fatter, but the bigger one is definatly longer.

these snakes are very vigerious and are for the most part begging me for more food... which generally is normal behaviour for a retic.

i dont know about making something grow past what its DNA allows... but nature has a way of throwing curve balls.

here is a pic, maybe this will help... the top one and bottom one are the oldest, the middle one is approximately 2 months younger. its head looks small but its just foreshortend.

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/102580DSCF7034-med.JPG

i guess it boils down to, if you feed it it will grow - i think frequency, and timing also play a very important role.... as growth hormanes arent always at the same levels through out life.

[LdyDrgn]

Yes, if you feed it it WILL grow... most of the skeletal structure and the skin grows at a phenomenal rate. However, if fed too heavily, the skull and the internal organs do not grow as fast as the rest of the snake. Results: pin-headed, obese and a shortened lifespan. Many powerfed females die while giving birth as well.

How does one force a snake to eat more than it should? By offering too much, too often. Snakes don't know when their next meal is coming, so they will eat as much as they possibly can in case they end up not 'finding' food for several months. Another way to force one to eat too much is to sew a long string of prey items together. The snake doesn't stop until it reaches the end.

Just because a snake acts hungry does not necessarily mean you should feed it. Many snakes will not produce well, if at all, if overfed (Bloods/Short-tails and Olives come to mind). I know that retics have an incredible rate of digestion and can be fed more often than most other pythons...in fact, they put me in mind of Morelia in that regard rather than Python.

I feel it's best to allow snakes to digest their meal fully before offering another to allow their metabolism to drop to a normal rate for a bit instead of keeping it heightened. *shrug* Just my two cents, not that it's worth much ;)

[Morti]

The "powerfeeding" that bothers me most are people that feed their snakes ever 3 days. So I guess it's a frequency thing for me. I have noticed, however, that some snakes just simply grow faster and seem to have a faster metabolism than others... snakes from the same species... even from the same clutch or litter can grow at dramatically different rates when kept on the same feeding schedule. Damned if I know why though.

[esoteric-lizard]

Yes, if you feed it it WILL grow... most of the skeletal structure and the skin grows at a phenomenal rate. However, if fed too heavily, the skull and the internal organs do not grow as fast as the rest of the snake. Results: pin-headed, obese and a shortened lifespan. Many powerfed females die while giving birth as well.

How does one force a snake to eat more than it should? By offering too much, too often. Snakes don't know when their next meal is coming, so they will eat as much as they possibly can in case they end up not 'finding' food for several months. Another way to force one to eat too much is to sew a long string of prey items together. The snake doesn't stop until it reaches the end.

Just because a snake acts hungry does not necessarily mean you should feed it. Many snakes will not produce well, if at all, if overfed (Bloods/Short-tails and Olives come to mind). I know that retics have an incredible rate of digestion and can be fed more often than most other pythons...in fact, they put me in mind of Morelia in that regard rather than Python.

I feel it's best to allow snakes to digest their meal fully before offering another to allow their metabolism to drop to a normal rate for a bit instead of keeping it heightened. *shrug* Just my two cents, not that it's worth much ;)

hi michelle, i appreciate your input!

your right that retics have very high metabolisms, i have noticed that they can turn their meal into mush in a matter of days, if the temperature is right and they have enough water. i have also noticed that one of my females body seemed to grow a little faster than her head... but her skeletal structure caught up now i guess, cuz she looks just fine.

the reason soft tissue (internal & external) grows faster than bone is because protein synthesis, and cell division happen faster than it does in bone. but the boney matrix does catch up... i think that if an excess of calories is taken in by the body, the body uses what it can for builing tissue and repair - then stores ramaining nutrients as fat - subcutaneous and visceral adipose.

does food act like steroids in snakes, as implied by the name powerfeeding?

its my belief that if the body is growing, and there is a great supply of nutrients - that the body would grow in direct relation with the amount of growth hormones being released.

michelle - can you please tell me where you heard of a powerfed snake dying while laying eggs? how did they know the cause of death was from being over fed?

thanks,

Bry :)

[LdyDrgn]

Bry...I've heard it from countless sources, but I can't recall specifically who all has said so. I know I have heard of it happening in boas in particular...but I don't know if it happens with pythons.