Coolnews andnewpics of Eve, NERD '04 0.1 retic d.up-warning [Archive]

1staburmthenaconda

02-28-2005, 06:38 PM

I was excited when I heard back from Andy that the little normal girl I had just received by way of Billy's New England Aquarium Reptile Show was not exactly what I thought she was...I was asking for an ID on locality, but I didn't expect to hear that she was the offspring of a tiger het calico to a Calico... :icon_wor: ...
...Turns out it's just what they had and she was getting a little big to keep around...Last I had heard was that the NERD calico to het calico offspring were generally a little more than their normals... :headbang: ...I guess they just know how to treat a customer--well, that and they have high end animals out to wazoo... :icon_cheers: ...I will buy NERD again...And Billy ran an awesome show, or more like 40 of them--I saw three... :icon_hea: ...

...Andy also said that that's why she has the silver in her eyes...It might be an early genotypic sign that she will turn out to be a visible calico, once she gets closer to sexual maturity...
...Also, I was pondering about the small amount of golden-child(ish) pattern on her neck, and maybe that's related to the calico gene complex also?... :101: ...I'm excited by the whole deal...

Here you go; more from the coolpix 8800 on auto-everything w/ no suplimental flash/lighting...

In this first one I was at petco to buy large rats to prekill (because I'm currently out of f/t ) and I came across the anoles and decided to pick up two in the hope that either the bci's or the retic would find some form of interest in them...Especially since they are a very common natural prey of the bci's; but it turns out the bci's show no interest when on a full stomach and Eve totally ignores them even when she's hungry enough to eat a pk rat...she is very docile and accepting of contact and interaction anytime, which I'm quite suprised about...I thought they would be fun snake/toys...turns out not...:006: ...
http://photobucket.com/albums/v673/88001/z488800004.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v673/88001/z488800047.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v673/88001/z468800043.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v673/88001/z518800082.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v673/88001/z518800079b.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v673/88001/z518800079.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v673/88001/z518800070.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v673/88001/z518800069.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v673/88001/z518800067.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v673/88001/z518800041.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v673/88001/z518800037.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v673/88001/z518800026.jpg

LowerGround

02-28-2005, 09:34 PM

Just curious... why in the world would you want to feed a snake anoles that are probably wild caught and full of parasites, not to mention that rats are a little cheaper...

1staburmthenaconda

02-28-2005, 10:01 PM

Good question...I think that it is a bad idea and I had no nutritional justification for it...Although they themselves pose no direct physical harm to the snakes I agree that the anoles could very easily carry some parasites or even a virus that may do harm to the snakes...I didn't really think it through well enough...I appreciate you pointing that out...In this case I think I got lucky because there was no anole eating going on, period, but it certainly wouldn't be worth the risk...
...The main reason I tried it out was simply to observe how the snakes would view the anoles:as high interest food, low interest food, a threat, a friend (doubtful), or an insubstantial acquaintance who is to be ignore...Personally, I found the last to be true, which was a little suprising...
...I won't do it again, and I will take your advice and not put my snakes at a minor risk if it is in no way useful to them...I do feel like I learned something from this little experiment, which is often my only goal...Others should feel free to reprimand, but I already see what I chose to try was not safe and w/out qualification... :oops: ...

...Comments welcome...

RhacBreeder

02-28-2005, 10:05 PM

Good! Now go to your room and think about what you've done!! lol j/k man we all do stuff without thinking now and then...beautiful snake too btw

meltingfetus

02-28-2005, 10:33 PM

good thing you still have your hand in 1 piece. lucky for you your retic wasnt interested in that little lizard. :ncrazyqu:

LowerGround

02-28-2005, 11:23 PM

hehe no problem. I'd hate to see such a beautiful snake come down with a case of nasty worms!

1staburmthenaconda

02-28-2005, 11:39 PM

Haha...I have very few snakes around the apartment and procrastinating from my studies to play w/ them is a favorite passtime, so I have been handling Eve for about 45 minutes 4 times a day for the last week and a half (except the first two days after both of the meals she has taken)...During this time she has been extremely tolerant of any type of handling, and become very habituated to fast movement and is even no longer headshy whatsoever...Even after her big meals, when she tries to look hissy I still open her cage about 4 times a day and bring my hand slowly to her face then rub her neck, so as to make contact w/ her in her cage w/out disturbing her full stomach...The difference between a hobbyist like me and a big breeder is that although all the necessary resources are provided for the snakes in both places, I have the time to work personally w/ all of my snakes for a good deal of time every day; whereas a big breeder treats and interacts w/ their snakes in a functional way (cleaning, feeding, etc.) and has to be careful w/ each one unless they know each snake individually...
...Although she has a strong feeding response, I have been working w/ her on being calm w/ non food items specifically when there is rat odor in the air...I know very well that this is a touchy time to interact w/ a snake, especially a retic, but I work w/ all my snakes in the same way and I know that if I'm going to have the chance to train them to be very well-mannered it is going to be when they are small and getting bitten is an acceptable risk...Haha, personally, after the training I've gone through w/ the bloods I've had, getting my hand torn up a little by a 64" retic is not a concern (and she hasn't drawn blood yet)...:shocked: ...
...In the picture I did not expect Eve to react by striking either offensively or defensively and she didn't; and to be honest, at this point, her biting me is not a scary thought--the only reason I would really prefer to avoid it is because biting can damage their teeth a little and cause some unecessary stress... :roll: ...

Tiffanybea

03-01-2005, 07:05 AM

Eve is just getting prettier and prettier everytime you post pictures of her. :) She certainly is the apple of your eye and rightfully so. :biggrin2:

Hey, remind me to come back as your next Retic when I die. *wink*
lol I admire you for being so curious and so interested in your snakes. You sound just as obsessive about Eve as I do about my little Ular (my NERD Sumatran Blood). I wonder how thrilled these snakes are about becoming our "kids" and having us spoil them so. lol

1staburmthenaconda

03-01-2005, 04:46 PM

Thanks, I trust that she'll get prettier in time, but I'm more interested to follow her growth patterns over the next couple of years...I'm probably more interested in boid (retic) sensory systems and feeding habits/growth curves than just about anything else...Talk about a cool companion... 8) ...

1staburmthenaconda

03-10-2005, 12:30 AM

Yay, I have gotten one step further in understanding the specific genetics of my baby, Eve...Talking to Andy, I have learned that Eve (although visibly normal) is the daughter of Flame Thrower (the tiger, het calico father of Flame who is pictures in some other posts) and Poison Ivy (the amazing white calico pictured on the NERD photo pages under the white calico section)...You have no idea how lucky I feel considering how I got her... :newcloud9: ...

daiyoukai

03-10-2005, 12:57 AM

for christ sake use your thumb next time and rub off that little bit of skin befor taking pics.... JUST KIDDING, nice retic, I wish mine was something special sometimes but everytime I actualy look at her she reminds me that she is special in her own way. :dance:

1staburmthenaconda

03-10-2005, 12:45 PM

Haha, it's not even skin or old shed or anything...I noticed later (good knows how I didn't notice at first and rub it off) that it was a tiny bit of the fibers from my paper-pulp bedding stuff that had stuck to her head...I'm hoping her sheds will be perfect and patches of old skin will never be a problem...I think I should have luck w/ good sheds also, because I keep her at about 60-70% humidity, mist often, and she always has a water bowl (24/7)...THanks for looking close enough to notice; I was po'd about that too... :lol: ...

Beardo

03-10-2005, 01:19 PM

In this first one I was at petco to buy large rats to prekill (because I'm currently out of f/t ) and I came across the anoles and decided to pick up two in the hope that either the bci's or the retic would find some form of interest in them...Especially since they are a very common natural prey of the bci's

Uhh, dude....last time I checked, Green Anoles are native to the US (hence the latin name Anolis carolinensis).....BCIs are not, so how did you come to the conclusion that they are a 'very common natural prey' for them??

I also don't think Retics, being from Indonesia and the surrounding islands would eat a US native species of lizard on a regular basis either. That combined with a gross difference in size makes an Anole a poor, although comical choice of prey for either BCIs or Retics. :doh:

jordanm

03-10-2005, 03:45 PM

Damn dude, thats some luck there.. I want one!! :P

Ryan77

03-10-2005, 03:51 PM

Love the silver rings around her eyes. You definately have a keeper there. :045: :023:

1staburmthenaconda

03-10-2005, 04:03 PM

Hey Beardo, I do appreciate the criticism, considering that, like I said, it was an unnecessary risk as far as parasites, and had nothing to do w/ trying to give the snakes a nutritional meal...It was just a little experiment, and one that I won't be trying again...

...I feel like I answered all the criticisms in the previous post, so I'm not 100% sure ya needed to bring it up again, but that's ok... :) ...

...As far as the anole thing goes, they are found all over the world and all species are pretty similar...I will almost guarantee the the genetics of a central american anole is almost totally conserved in green anoles or Caribbean anoles or South American anoles...In the wild, a common food of both BCI's and BCC's (especially/mainly when they are juveniles) are lizards and anoles (yes in the range of these snakes) are almost always the most common lizard...Both species do naturally eat anoles (numerous different species of them) in the wild (and I know my snakes aren't in the wild, but that's not the point I'm commenting on)...
...As for the retic, you're right, I have a feeling that retics rarely eat anoles even as juveniles, but they do eat lizards occassionally as juvie's in the wild, and there are a good number of anole species throughout the natural habitat of retics...

Here's a quote from an article from an article on the Animal Planet Reptile Guide website...

Tiffany Cain, BS
Zoologist, Veterinary Services Department, Drs. Foster & Smith, Inc.

The Green Anole (Anolis carolinensis) is one of the most familiar lizards in North America. There are more than 300 species of anoles throughout the world, over half of which are found in North, Central, and South America. The Green Anole is the only anole native to the United States. Although they are not closely related to true chameleons, Green Anoles are often referred to as "chameleons" or the "American Chameleon" due to their ability to change color.

Beardo

03-10-2005, 04:54 PM

Unless there is a race of super tiny, miniature Boas roaming the forests of South & Central America, I highly doubt either BCIs or BCCs eat Anoles of any kind on a regular basis.

I also doubt the validity of your claim that lizards make up the majority of Boas' diets...I'm not saying they don't eat them, but I'm fairly certain mammals and birds make up a much larger percentage than tiny lizards such as Anoles.

You're lucky your snakes know more about their dietary needs than you do. :|

1staburmthenaconda

03-10-2005, 05:32 PM

Lizards ARE the main portion of a young boas diet, before they are large enough to eat rodents (which are often scarce anyway) or coordinated/experienced enough to catch birds...Do the research--I have...

...I did not mean to make it sound like anoles, or any lizards were the main prey of any older, bigger bci's or bcc's...

...By the way, a huge majority of the wild population of boas in Central and South America, are basically dwarfed by our, captive animals...In the wild (especially on islands, etc.) prey is scarce and these snakes are only eating rarely--a rough estimate for an island bcc may be once every 6 weeks...On many of these islands there are, in fact, no rodents...

...I have seen wild boas that were probably bci's on islands off Belize (that have been monitored by island owner for years) that are 4' and maybe 3 lbs at the most and are more than a decade old!...

...Even breeding size may often be much smaller in the wild than we would expect or choose to see from the same strain of captive boas...

...One more time...I was not attempting to feed any of my snakes anoles to provide nutrition, or in place of rats...All my snakes eat rats and rats alone, and they all happily took rats immediately after they refused the anoles... I only tried feeding the anoles to see how the snakes reacted...To see if the bci's responded differently than the retic...For its educational value...For fun...Thank you....

...I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that you, and the majority of regular members of this site have more longterm experience w/ captive herp care, breeding, etc...but I'll be d**ned if you know more about reptiles in the wild...I study this stuff every day in college, at BU...I know my shit when it comes to animal behavior, sensory bio, and anatomy...Keep that in mind...I do respect your knowledge of herp care though... :clap: ...

...Mods, please don't take this as me being a brat or trying to cause trouble...This is a string that I started (so I'm not butting in on someone elses topic) and I'm pretty much just trying to defend myself/end this silly argument that I feel I address quite adequately before Beardo came along... :biggrin2: ...

Beardo

03-10-2005, 05:46 PM

Lizards ARE the main portion of a young tree boas diet, before they are large enough to eat rodents (which are often scarce anyway) or coordinated/experienced enough to catch birds...Do the research--I have...

We weren't talking about Tree Boas, but since you brought it up....you're wrong again. Sorry, but Tree Boas mainly eat small mammals and birds....very little of their diet is made up of lizards either. If Tree Boas mainly ate lizards, why do freshly imported speciemens readily take rodents as their first meal? Have you ever even kept any Corallus? I have. :roll:

...By the way, a huge majority of the wild population of boas in Central and South America, are basically dwarfed by our, captive animals...In the wild (especially on islands, etc.) prey is scarce and these snakes are only eating rarely--a rough estimate for an island bcc may be once every 6 weeks...On many of these islands there are, in fact, no rodents...

Name ONE insular BCC. There aren't any. ;) And if you think rodents don't reach the islands that boas inhabit, you are truly naive.

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that you, and the majority of regular members of this site have more longterm experience w/ captive herp care, breeding, etc...but I'll be d**ned if you know more about reptiles in the wild...I study this stuff every day in college, at BU...I know my doo-doo when it comes to animal behavior, sensory bio, and anatomy...Keep that in mind...I do respect your knowledge of herp care though.

Yes, I agree....you certainly know your "doo-doo." :?

So...you're saying you've done field research on Boa Constrictor dietary habits and have actually observed some of the things you claim (such as Boas eating Green Anoles)? :shocked:

1staburmthenaconda

03-10-2005, 05:55 PM

Beardo, you seem like an experienced herper...You keep some very cool herps...I respect that...I wouldn't argue w/ you about the proper care techniques of any of them...I'm simply afraid that I'd lose...

...I'm a scholar, specializing in marine biology and herpetology at one of the better colleges (for these fields) in the country...I will shortly be going for a phd in either marine bio or herpetology; maybe both (because I can)...If I were you, I wouldn't argue w/ me too much about topics of animal behavior, sensory bio, or anatomy, bio-physics, bio-chemistry, or molecular biology/genetics, because I would be afraid of loosing...

...Maybe you should read my topic string in the introduction section...

...I really hate coming off as such a snot, but I'm a little tired of this debate...I will win...

...All my fellow members, I'm really sorry to make you read all this rubbish; please don't get too annoyed w/ my over-confident antics...I almost always try to be very modest when I'm approaching other people's business (topics) or giving my opinions on topics that others know more than me about...In this case, it's my string and I just want Beardo to understand that when I offer a response that I'm confident in, I'm confident because my claims are backed up by the scientic literature...I read a lot of science research papers every day...

1staburmthenaconda

03-10-2005, 06:00 PM

Yes, I spent a week watching the overall habits of several strains of bc(somethings) in both mainland and island habitats of Belize...I saw a great number of individuals (highly varied in habitat preference, age, girth, length, color, and pattern), although I was only fortunate enough to watch 2 feeding events...
Yes, I have watched a wild island bc(something) of about 30", a skinny little 4 year old eat a wild anole (not green) on a small key off Belize...This island is ~4 acres and like many of the other small islands in the area, there are NO mammals whatsoever on the island (other than the owners and their dogs)...
...It was an easy kill...The boa never moved except to strike...They anole came to it itself and wham...

...The other was a nest robbing of some fledglings (when momma bird wasn't home) by a large bc(something) pretty high in a tree...

Beardo

03-10-2005, 06:22 PM

I'm a scholar, specializing in marine biology and herpetology at one of the better colleges (for these fields) in the country...I will shortly be going for a phd in either marine bio or herpetology; maybe both (because I can)...If I were you, I wouldn't argue w/ me too much about topics of animal behavior, sensory bio, or anatomy, bio-physics, bio-chemistry, or molecular biology/genetics, because I would be afraid of loosing...

...Maybe you should read my topic string in the introduction section...

...I really hate coming off as such a snot, but I'm a little tired of this debate...I will win...

Wow, I guess you're right.....I had no idea I was so overmatched.

I suppose being a Biology major (minor in Ecology) myself doesn't give me any reason to question you, what was I thinking?? I'll slink back under your shadow and dream of the day I can live up to your lofty credentials. :roll: :doh: :oops:

1staburmthenaconda

03-10-2005, 06:22 PM

As far as the "tree boa thing," what I meant was to group boas (bci's and bcc's) that live mostly in trees, and not tree boas specifically...Sorry for my miscommunication...

...However, lizards are a large part of the diet of both wild tree pythons and tree boas when they are young, for the same reasons that I stated for young bci's and bcc's...

...I think you may be right about there being no insular bcc's, but that doesn't effect my argument...I am honestly not 100% sure of the exact subspecies of any of the boas I observed...

Beardo

03-10-2005, 06:24 PM

As far as the "tree boa thing," what I meant was to group boas (bci's and bcc's) that live mostly in trees, and not tree boas specifically...Sorry for my miscommunication...

How conveeeeeenient!!! :sobstory:

...However, lizards are a large part of the diet of both wild tree pythons and tree boas when they are young, for the same reasons that I stated for young bci's and bcc's...

If you say so, it must be true!! :clap:

1staburmthenaconda

03-10-2005, 06:26 PM

I'm glad to see we're following similar career paths...Something I respect wholeheartedly...I hope you don't choose to stop at a bachelors...But seriously, I think it's really cool what you're studying... :angel: ...Where do you go to school?...I'm not trying to like be rude to you or turn this into a longterm grudgematch...I'm just debating...Hope you can understand that... :biggrin2: ...

...Did you find the topics introduced in my intro interesting?...

Beardo

03-10-2005, 06:30 PM

After the horrendous display of husbandry and the pompous chest-pounding that has come from you, I certainly do not feel the need to answer any of your questions. I'm sure you have people that are more "on your level" to talk to rather than a puny know-nothing such as myself. ;) Toodles. 8)

1staburmthenaconda

03-10-2005, 07:24 PM

Fair enough...Sorry to hear that...Best of luck to you w/ your studies...

...You know, the only thing through this whole deal that I disagree w/ you about is that many juvenile snakes that live in trees DO eat lizards, before they switch over to birds and mammals...And I am pretty darn sure that this is true...

...But I do consider you "on my level"...I just have just been lucky enough to see more of the world and the way nature works than you have...On the other hand, I strongly feel lile you may have a better rounded experience w/ captive herp care than I... It all evens out... :) ...

RhacBreeder

03-10-2005, 08:54 PM

1staburm, I respect you for trying to explain yourself, and I have no idea who is right and who is not, but your just waisting your breath IMHO, beardo and you can butt heads about this and many other topics... If I were either of you I would stop the bickering because there are plenty of other topics to view. You both are standing your grounds as well you should, but this has turned into an "I'm right...You're wrong..." argument and has the potential to go on forever!! I am not bashing either one of you so please please do not take it that way. It is an impressive argument though. Also you may have heard other people mentioning the EGO TRIP people go on when entering this hobby... Who cares who knows more?? The only time it matters is when someone is searching for information, that is the only time it should matter who knows more. This hobby is supposed to be fun....Sorry for the long post but watching an "EGO Argument" is annoying at best... :?

Just my $0.02

Andy

03-10-2005, 10:50 PM

The bickering does need to stop.....

I know many people without degrees in biology, herpetology, or any other "ology" that would run circles around both of you

1staburmthenaconda

03-10-2005, 11:07 PM

I appreciate the concern and I actually expected more stern words from levelheaded fellas like yourselves (Andy, and whats your name Rhac Breeder--you guys are very cool...:109: )...The argument I was waging was NOT levelheaded, or whatsoever appropriate for the forums...

...I definately lost my cool there, and although I am very confident about my intellectual prowess, it takes a real jerk to flaunt my opinions and position the way I did... :009: ...

...I know there are countless guys and gals on these and other sites w/ not only more experience, but more knowledge of herps...And sorry to all of you because clearly I was indirectly rude to all of you... :icon_pal: ...

...Please don't let my attitude in this string overly contribute to your opinion of my character...I may put in my say about things a lot, but I am honestly a pretty modest guy in most situations and know my place--which around here is pretty low on the totem-pole and rightly so... :biggrin3: ...

...One more time, thanks for stepping in RB and Andy...And although it's kinda a thorn in my side at the moment, I realize that I really need to say I'm sorry for being rude to you Beardo...I liked the intellectual side of our argument...To bad I/we couldn't keep it clean... :wav: ...

Beardo

03-10-2005, 11:16 PM

Hey, no problem man.....I was out of line for my saracastic attitude as well. I had the headache from hell today lol.

Andy

03-10-2005, 11:35 PM

I have no problem with you guys disagreeing or people stating there opinions. Mike if you think they eats lizards post some links to some sites where your information came from. David if you think they dont post your links. Just dont bicker its annoying. :blackeye:

Opinions and different points of view are good

KLG

03-11-2005, 12:08 AM

Well said, Andy. Thank you. :)

K~

1staburmthenaconda

03-11-2005, 12:38 AM

What a novel idea Andy; I like the way you think...

Beardo, I'm not adding links to continue arguing w/ you, I just think that I made bold statements earlier and I ought to back them up a little...Please don't be offended...I'm still sorry for acting like a jerk...

...I'll start off w/ one of my favorite scientific boa papers I have read many times...It doesn't push the lizard eating thing, but it certainly suggests it...It's a great/long pdf file that every boa owner should download and refer to... :) ...
http://home.att.net/~crinaustin/BoaInfo.pdf...

And here's a specific quote from it...
de Vosjoli (1998) observed a juvenile boa constrictor twitch its tail in an attempt to
lure a lizard housed in an adjacent cage. Boa constrictors feed mostly on birds and mammals, but have been
reported to take lizards also (Greene 1983)....

Another nice article from Reptile Care magazine...http://www.reptilecaremagazine.com/download/previews/issue9preview.pdf

and here's a somewhat supportive quote from that...

In the wild, rodents, other small
the main diet of the boa. Lizards and frogs may occasionally be consumed

I probably shouldn't even include this one because it doesn't seem as highly reputable as a scientific source, but here ya go...http://ladywildlife.com/animal/boaconstrictor.html

and a quote from it...

Food and Hunting: The boa constrictor eats a wide variety of food. Young snakes eat mice, small birds, lizards, and frogs. As the snake grows, the size of its prey increases

HERE is an article on candoia that is rather nice, that supports my argument in regards to Beardo's counter that if some snakes naturally eat lizards as juvies in the wild, why do breeders, or importers start feeding them rodents sucessfully right off the bat...
As they say, all Candoia feed almost totally on lizards as juvies in the wild, but it is often a good idea and successful to try to feed rodents to neonates even though it isn't natural (for keeper ease)...

http://www.kingsnake.com/candoia/review.html

and a quote...

All adult Candoia readily accept mice & rats. The feeding of neonates is not as hard as you've all probably heard. Most baby candoia will not eat pinkie mice on the first attempt. There is a very simple reason for this. They're not supposed to! Neonates react wildly when a small treefrog or lizard is placed in their cage. It is instinctive for them to grab swift moving prey items. So I will let them eat 5 or 6 lizards or frogs. This will get them going and put on weight. . The next step is the secret to feeding baby Candoia. No food for 3 solid weeks! After several frogs or lizards, leave the neonate alone. Just make sure it has a fresh water bowl. When approximately 3 weeks pass, offer the baby snake a pinkie that is heavily scented with its favorite food item. This usually works all the time. If it doesn't you will have to give it some more frogs or lizards and try again at a later time. Some neonates will switch over to pinkies on their own at 6-9 months of age. Baby australis & baby carinata will usually neever start on pinkies. Ground and viper boas are the best pinkie starters....

that's it for now...I'll add more support later... :)

Beardo

03-11-2005, 01:21 AM

I never claimed that Boas don't eat lizards period, but you said they were a "common" prey item and it seemed like you were implying they made up a major portion of their diet.....which actually is a claim the sources you cite above refute.

Not being a jerk, just stating an observation. :)

RhacBreeder

03-11-2005, 01:30 AM

On and on it goes.... :roll:

Beardo

03-11-2005, 01:42 AM

Hey, I'm not bickering.....I thought a friendly debate/discussion was kosher. :eh:

RhacBreeder

03-11-2005, 01:46 AM

i thought about it after i made that last post, and you are right. Sorry I'm tired. But your post before mine will definitely get a response that probably will start with something like..."yeah...but" ... I actually like intelectual debates like this is turning into because I learn stuff.

1staburmthenaconda

03-11-2005, 01:49 AM

It is... :biggrin2: ...

...I am still of the opinion that lizards are the primary or at least a main food item for juvenile boa constrictors, especially where mammalian prey is scarce...Just working on finding more decisive links...lol...

...I think it's all good between Beardo and I at this point R.B... :lol: ...thanks for the concern...

RhacBreeder

03-11-2005, 01:51 AM

Boa constrictors feed mostly on birds and mammals, but have been
reported to take lizards also

Lizards and frogs may occasionally be consumed

Earlier in the thread I did get the impression from 1staburm that lizards were a staple diet... btw the names Joe!

And I think we can all agree that bci and bcc will sometimes feed on lizards in the wild, although they are not a staple diet especially into adult hood :dance:

1staburmthenaconda

03-11-2005, 02:04 AM

Thanks Joe...yeah, everyone seems to agree that juvenile boa constrictors (across the board specieswise) eat lizards as a prey item...right?...

...wellllll...it just so happens that the original argument sprouted w/ Beardo asserting that anloles were not a natural prey item of boa constrictors!...right?...he said that GREEN anoles, specifically were not native prey items, which I'll agree is true!...however, the fact is that there are almost no anatomical, physiological, or behavioral differences between green anoles and the numerous species of anoles that DO live sympatrically w/ these boas...One anole will look VERY similar to another to a boa c. and should really elicit the same response...Considering, as we all agreed, juvie boas are more likely to prey on lizards than adults, I think it is an extremely solid argument that not only are lizards a natural wild prey of my baby bci's, but that green anoles should fit the bill just fine...

...I can't put up m,uch of an argument about the green anoles being natural realistic prey for the retic, but more do to their greater size than any disparity of geographic range...

All this was the bais for my little anole feeding experiment, based on my previous knowledge and curiosity...It turns out it was a bad idea, but IMO only due to the risk of internal parasitism...

...And what did I find?...My bci's aren't interested in green anoles as a food source (nor my retic)...and all in all, I think that's a neat thing to know... :| :P ...

1staburmthenaconda

03-11-2005, 02:05 AM

yay...do I win know?... :biggrin2: ...jk guys, but I'm so glad we got over the animosity...

RhacBreeder

03-11-2005, 02:06 AM

Yeah like I said I learned something from this post (eventually). :lol:

1staburmthenaconda

03-11-2005, 02:18 AM

Thanks for sticking around; and dude, if ya really want to learn a bit, I recommend reading my links, but mainly the first one...It is totally awesome, I couldn't recommend it to b.c. owners more... 8) ...

Beardo

03-11-2005, 02:22 AM

however, the fact is that there are almost no anatomical, physiological, or behavioral differences between green anoles and the numerous species of anoles that DO live sympatrically w/ these boas

I don't know man....if all the Anole species were as similar as you portray them to be, I doubt they'd be categorized taxonomically the way they are. There are estimated to be over 250 different species of Anole in the world....the largest being the Cuban Knight Anole (up to 20 inches long), which in my opinion would be the only really suitable meal for even a juvenile Boa Constrictor, and there are no Boas of the Boa constrictor class on Cuba.

I have no doubt that small baby Boas would opportunistically eat a small lizard, frog, or other vertebrate.....but I maintain my opinion that mammals and birds make up the vast majority of Boas' diets.

I can't put up m,uch of an argument about the green anoles being natural realistic prey for the retic, but more do to their greater size

I'm pretty sure the size difference between an Anole and a Boa Constrictor is enough to nullify consideration of Anoles as a food item for any Boas above baby-size.

LdyDrgn

03-11-2005, 02:37 AM

About a year ago I was watching a special about someone who takes young iguanas, rears them up and supplies many of them to the hotels to create tourist attractions, "Come feed the iguanas!" He would basically keep his eye on nesting sites and take a few... They showed many of the iguanas, of all sizes, being consumed by boas as they are one of their predators. Another special showed boas hanging from low branches in trees snatching birds off the ground as they pecked.

As far as anoles go, I do not know... but in the wild, I'm sure lizards and birds make up most of their diet. *shrug*

Ryan77

03-11-2005, 04:06 AM

for Christ's sake. this argument/discussion/argument seems to have no end. Andy had a point, there are more educated people. You both seem to know what you are argueing about but I have to give it to 1staburm credit for being polite. Bottom line......it was a freaking anole.....an ANOLE. It wasn't a lace monitor or a komodo, it was an ANOLE! Cobras eat snakes but in captivity they eat rodents. Life goes on. C'mon guys let it die. A FREAKING ANOLE for God's sake! :nnono:

1staburmthenaconda

03-11-2005, 12:09 PM

Hehe...that's similar to what I was thinking before it got tossed in w/ the retic (but I suppose internal parasites could have been a hidden villain...so I'm now relieved they didn't eat them)... :117: :hippy2: ...

Beardo

03-11-2005, 12:18 PM

Andy had a point, there are more educated people.

Whats your point? We're having a discussion here, and if you don't like the topic, you don't have to read or reply to it! ;)

Beardo

03-11-2005, 12:20 PM